LAP3 USA Kia Stinger Tuning

[Robs]

My recommendation is to run ?91 setting? with 93 oct fuel and run ?89 setting? with 91 oct fuel.

Am confused now, in Singapore we have RON 95 and 98, which should I pump and which setting to use to keep things safe?

 

[Bubbabiker]

RON 95 = US 91 and RON 98 = US 94

Should be safe with the 93 setting using RON 98.

 

[bikerdude]

could the problem wjth the spark plug and coil pack been with the coil pack .

 

[Robs]

RON 95 = US 91 and RON 98 = US 94

Should be safe with the 93 setting using RON 98.

Thanks! Read this in an article though, ?In Singapore, the number at petrol pumps is the RON. However, in the United States, it usually indicates 'mean' octane number, that is, (RON + MON)/2, or the average of both the RON and the MON. This is why there is an apparent discrepancy between octane values of petrol in the US and the rest of the world. For example, RON95 unleaded in Singapore is 95 octane but equivalent to American (RON+MON)/2 89 octane.

In the US, low-altitude petrol stations typically sell three grades of petrol with octane ratings of 87, 89 and 91. High-altitude stations typically also sell three grades, but with lower values - 85, 87 and 89. This is because, for every 300m increase in altitude, the RON value goes down by 0.5.?

 

[bikerdude]

so I don't know alot about these things. If I put 91 octane in my tank at 4500 ft elevation and drive up in the mountains my octane rating is less than 91

 

[STINGER]

could the problem wjth the spark plug and coil pack been with the coil pack .

At this stage who knows, the car was fine before installing the LAP3 and the problem happened like 15 minutes after removing it from the dyno where it made 408whp on the 93octane setting. At the moment I am only aware of two stingers who had the same coil pack problem after installing the LAP3, there needs to be a bigger testing sample and if more reports of coil packs going bad then it will need to be addressed.

I don't think it is that big of a problem at this stage to stop anybody who was considering buying the LAP3, the risk is still very low since only two reports have come to light.

 

[Bubbabiker]

Thanks! Read this in an article though, ?In Singapore, the number at petrol pumps is the RON. However, in the United States, it usually indicates 'mean' octane number, that is, (RON + MON)/2, or the average of both the RON and the MON. This is why there is an apparent discrepancy between octane values of petrol in the US and the rest of the world. For example, RON95 unleaded in Singapore is 95 octane but equivalent to American (RON+MON)/2 89 octane.

In the US, low-altitude petrol stations typically sell three grades of petrol with octane ratings of 87, 89 and 91. High-altitude stations typically also sell three grades, but with lower values - 85, 87 and 89. This is because, for every 300m increase in altitude, the RON value goes down by 0.5.?

The US and Canada uses the AKI (R+M)/2 method. Other parts of the world uses either MON or RON testing method. Some debates on real world vs. lab method for testing.

In a lot of states, like Texas uses 93 octane for premium instead of 91. I believe this is due to the ethanol content raising the octane levels.

 

[Bubbabiker]

Stinger, do you have pictures of the sparkplugs?

 

[sbrownnw]

In the US, low-altitude petrol stations typically sell three grades of petrol with octane ratings of 87, 89 and 91. High-altitude stations typically also sell three grades, but with lower values - 85, 87 and 89. This is because, for every 300m increase in altitude, the RON value goes down by 0.5.?

This almost sounds backwards, as higher altitude stations should be selling the higher value RON.

 

[mldavis2]

It's an interesting problem. At higher altitudes, air and oxygen is thinner, so fuel unboosted systems with FI and carburetors run rich. The solution to that is to reduce the octane which reduces emissions. But with turbocharged and supercharged engines, that is not necessary because these devices provide whatever boost/oxygen is required to burn the fuel in the proper stoichiometic ratios. After all, the real purpose of computerized fuel control is to control emissions. We may see a reversal of that fuel trend in upcoming years as most engines will be turbocharged in the interests of economy and power.

 

[Bubbabiker]

It's an interesting problem. At higher altitudes, air and oxygen is thinner, so fuel unboosted systems with FI and carburetors run rich. The solution to that is to reduce the octane which reduces emissions. But with turbocharged and supercharged engines, that is not necessary because these devices provide whatever boost/oxygen is required to burn the fuel in the proper stoichiometic ratios. After all, the real purpose of computerized fuel control is to control emissions. We may see a reversal of that fuel trend in upcoming years as most engines will be turbocharged in the interests of economy and power.

I remember the good old days when it was recommended to swap out the carburetor jets when driving to higher altitudes. Or chance of having gas fouled plugs.

 

[mldavis2]

I remember the good old days when it was recommended to swap out the carburetor jets when driving to higher altitudes. Or chance of having gas fouled plugs.

You kids aren't old enough to remember vapor lock, I'll bet.

 

[Bubbabiker]

You kids aren't old enough to remember vapor lock, I'll bet.

Ha! My Datsun 260Z was a poster child for vapor locking...LOL

 

[MurlinatoR]

Ha! My Datsun 260Z was a poster child for vapor locking...LOL

As was my 1985 Chevrolet Celevrity! LOLOLOL

 

[WS6_Keith]

We run our Stingers on the best pump fuel we have which is 98ron octane, this is the equivalent to 93pon "pon = Pump Octane Number" in the US. The default setting the chip came in was "6-6-6" which is the highest setting for 93pon fuel, to be safe we ran it on the lowest setting on the chip setting "7-4-4" which is for 89pon octane and ran the car on the dyno. Power went up from ~353whp to 386whp, to say the least we were quite happy.

While on the dyno we put it back to the highest setting "6-6-6" and the car pulled 410whp, the gain in torque was nuts also 463wtq.

Did you ever try the 7-5-5 setting for 91 octane? In my Optima 2.0T, it preferred this setting. I would get some rattle right at the shift from 2-3 consistently with the 6-6-6 setting.

Typically these systems uses the MAP, rail and boost sensors to fool the ECM in thinking it's lower that it actually is. In return the ECM increases the fuel pressure to the injectors for a higher flow rate to compensate for the lower sensor readings. These setups work fairly well to a point. There are limits due to the maximum output for the high pressure pump, injector flow rate and the turbo's efficiency map. Last thing you would want is having the system fuel mixture lean out, and cook the turbos from high drive pressure, both would be bad news.

The LAP3 Uncle Chip plugs into the MAP (manifold absolute pressure) and TIP (throttle inlet pressure) sensors. It just tells the ECU there is less boost than there actually is, which causes the ECU to increase the duty cycle to the wastegate solenoid for more boost. Since these cars have full time wideband O2 feedback, the extra airflow is seen as leaner O2 readings and the car compensates for it automatically. It has nothing to do with fuel pressure.

so I don't know alot about these things. If I put 91 octane in my tank at 4500 ft elevation and drive up in the mountains my octane rating is less than 91

The octane of the fuel stays the same as you go up in elevation, but the density of the air goes down as you go up in elevation, resulting in lower combustion pressures. This is why you can get away with more timing and less fuel as you go up in elevation in aspirated form, but with a turbo/supercharger, they make up for this deficiency by pumping harder and therefore you have less loss of power as elevation increases.

This almost sounds backwards, as higher altitude stations should be selling the higher value RON.

No, as you go up in altitude/elevation above sea level, the available air pressure that your motor is breathing is less, so cylinder combustion pressures are also less. Lower combustion pressure = less need for octane as it has less propensity to knock or preignite with lower pressures.

 

[Bubbabiker]

Did you ever try the 7-5-5 setting for 91 octane? In my Optima 2.0T, it preferred this setting. I would get some rattle right at the shift from 2-3 consistently with the 6-6-6 setting.



The LAP3 Uncle Chip plugs into the MAP (manifold absolute pressure) and TIP (throttle inlet pressure) sensors. It just tells the ECU there is less boost than there actually is, which causes the ECU to increase the duty cycle to the wastegate solenoid for more boost. Since these cars have full time wideband O2 feedback, the extra airflow is seen as leaner O2 readings and the car compensates for it automatically. It has nothing to do with fuel pressure.



The octane of the fuel stays the same as you go up in elevation, but the density of the air goes down as you go up in elevation, resulting in lower combustion pressures. This is why you can get away with more timing and less fuel as you go up in elevation in aspirated form, but with a turbo/supercharger, they make up for this deficiency by pumping harder and therefore you have less loss of power as elevation increases.



No, as you go up in altitude/elevation above sea level, the available air pressure that your motor is breathing is less, so cylinder combustion pressures are also less. Lower combustion pressure = less need for octane as it has less propensity to knock or preignite with lower pressures.

Cool. Wasn't sure if these modules can manipulate the rail pressure like on diesels. Common rail diesel tuning we would raise the rail pressure and increase the injector duty cycle for more fuel. And boost fooling to fake out the electronic wastegate.

 

[mldavis2]

Big difference between a gasoline engine which is an air-throttled engine, and a diesel which is unthrottled.

 

[Rufus]

Cool! Another "Stung" owner from the Puget Sound region! Howdy!

 

[Gadfly]

What is the difference between the single and the dual chip models?

If this is just MAP sensor modification it is no wonder people are burning though plugs.

 

[benjaminearle]

As was my 1985 Chevrolet Celevrity! LOLOLOL

85 Celebrity, For The Win! I had one in white, red cloth benches front and back. What a POS.